Re-sent ... Jon, I've found the original posting, and all of the points to
which I refer are contained therein.  I suspect that I may have clicked on
the attachment instead of going to their site, but I did visit their site as
well.

Original mailout, as attached to the original mailout, is attached hereto.

If you read their offer as carefully as it appears to have been written, it
says that their offer's default setting is "Security On" if they don't hear
from you.  Restated, it means that you accept their offer in the absence of
you declining it.  Embedded in their "security offer" is the fact that they
automatically deduct payment for renewal.

And magically, you have entered into a contract without ever having seen
their documentation in the first place.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Lawrence [mailto:jon§jonlawrence.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2002 10:05 PM
To: dns§lists.auda.org.au
Subject: RE: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We
Offer a High Security Feature Free to Our Customers Account # <- N-BTQK9
-> 


Well that's very interesting if that's the case (I deleted the original
email in this thread already so I can't check it).  

Their terms and conditions as posted on their website do not appear to
reserve
them the right to bill for renewals without an explicit order.  Also, during
the registration process on their site you are also presented with the
option
of selecting (or not) the "high security features" that are the subject
of this thread.  

Can you please forward the relevant text from their mailout?

thanks
jon



>-- Original Message --
>Reply-To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
>From: Ron Stark <ronstark&#167;businesspark.com.au>
>To: "'dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au'" <dns§lists.auda.org.au>
>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:51:40 +1000
>Subject: RE: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We Offer
>
>	a High Security Feature Free to Our Customers    Account # <-
N-BTQK9
->
>
>
>
>Jon, it's not a free offer.  It's an offer that says "we will automatically
>deduct payment from your credit card unless you click here to say don't".
>That's not "opt in" - that's "not-opt-out".  So what happens if my email
>has
>changed?  What happens if my mail server is down?  What happens if I'm
on
>holiday?  I get money taken from my credit card without my authority -
>that's what happens.
>
>If they say "Click here if you want us to take your money" that's OK -
but
>it's not OK the way they've done it.
>
>Ron Stark
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jon Lawrence [mailto:jon&#167;jonlawrence.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2002 6:48 PM
>To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
>Subject: Re: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We
>Offer a High Security Feature Free to Our Customers Account # <- N-BTQK9
>-> 
>
>
>Rod
>
>You are correct this offer relates to gTLDs and not .au domain names. 
There
>is nothing here that I have any problems with, and I've seen lots of
>practices
>in the gTLD market that I do have problems with.
>
>This is an offer of a free service.  There is clearly no obligation on
the
>customer to take this up.  The automatic renewal is also something that
>many gTLD registrars offer, some of whom hide it in their terms and
>conditions
>rather than being upfront about it being an option as Namescout are doing
>here.
>
>Having said that however this is one of a few examples I've seen lately
>that make it clear to me that Namescout has not yet come to terms with
the
>idiosyncrasies of the .au space.  At very least they should have mentioned
>which domain spaces this feature is applicable to, unless they actually
>think they can offer these services in .au which is a troubling thought...
>
>jon
>
>
>>-- Original Message --
>>Reply-To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
>>From: "Rod Keys" <rod&#167;ddns.com.au>
>>To: <dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au>
>>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:27:08 +1000
>>Subject: Re: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We Offer
>>a High Security Feature Free to Our Customers    Account # <- N-BTQK9
->
>>
>>
>>
>>Ron,
>>I think they refer to GTLD's not CC. It's just a way to try and glue
>>customers to them.
>>I would think they could be challanged but what are the laws in Bermuda?
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Ron Stark" <ronstark&#167;businesspark.com.au>
>>To: <dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au>
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 9:14 AM
>>Subject: RE: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We Offer
>>a
>>High Security Feature Free to Our Customers Account # <- N-BTQK9 ->
>>
>>
>>> Some quick observations:
>>>
>>> 1 I can't see the relevance of the "security lock" - that protection
>>> is an integral part of every registrar's procedures
>>>
>>> 2 How can they offer a 1-year renewal when there's a 2-year minimum
>>> for .com.au domains?
>>>
>>> 3 The offer is a "not-opt-out" one that involves a "We'll take your
>>> money if you don't reply".  I have a BIG problem with that one.
>>>
>>> 4 I have a problem with the notion that the "not-opt-out" debit
>>> authorisation is couched in terms of "this is a free security feature"
>>- a
>>> plain nonsense, especially when the "protection" is provided by every
>>> registrar.
>>>
>>> 5 Although an apparently small excess, isn't there a maximum of 90
>>> days prior notice?  Why 95 days?
>>>
>>> 6 There's an inference that if you turn the "security feature" off you
>>> no longer enjoy protection against malicious transfers to other
>>registrars.
>>> Isn't this then in violation of the Registrar's Agreement?
>>>
>>> Ron Stark
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: OzNet Hosting [mailto:waleed.salhien&#167;telstra.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2002 8:51 AM
>>> To: DNS - List
>>> Subject: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We Offer
>a
>>> High Security Feature Free to Our Customers Account # <- N-BTQK9 ->
>>>
>>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> can someone please tell me whether the below email i received is
>>> legally correct or not as i feel it is just a scam to force customers
>>> to pay extra money to renew there domain names.
>>>
>>> please provide your feedback.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>>> List policy, unsubscribing and archives =>
>>http://www.auda.org.au/list/dns/
>>> Please do not retransmit articles on this list without permission of
>the
>>> author, further information at the above URL.  (353 subscribers.)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>>List policy, unsubscribing and archives =>
http://www.auda.org.au/list/dns/
>>Please do not retransmit articles on this list without permission of the
>>
>>author, further information at the above URL.  (353 subscribers.)
>>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>List policy, unsubscribing and archives => http://www.auda.org.au/list/dns/
>Please do not retransmit articles on this list without permission of the
>
>author, further information at the above URL.  (354 subscribers.)
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>List policy, unsubscribing and archives => http://www.auda.org.au/list/dns/
>Please do not retransmit articles on this list without permission of the
>
>author, further information at the above URL.  (354 subscribers.)
>



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
List policy, unsubscribing and archives => http://www.auda.org.au/list/dns/
Please do not retransmit articles on this list without permission of the 
author, further information at the above URL.  (354 subscribers.)

attached mail follows:

  <http://www.namescout.com/email/images/header.gif> 	

Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We Offer a High Security Feature
Free to Our Customers 

Dear Valued Customer: 

In an effort to protect your online identities, Namescout.com provides a
free High Security feature. We are offering this service at no additional
charge in response to customer requests for protection against inadvertent
and/or malicious deletion of domain names. The High Security feature
protects you in two important ways - Registrar Lock and Automatic Renewal. 

Registrar Lock - To protect against malicious transfers of your domain name,
we will not allow your domain names to be transferred out of our system and
to a third party without your permission. Without the High Security feature,
anyone can request a transfer of your domain names to another registrar,
possibly without any prior notice to you. With the High Security feature,
your domain names will not be transferred without your express consent.
Through this feature we can provide you with the highest degree of security
and protection available today. 

Automatic Renewal - Approximately 95 days prior to the end of your current
registration period, we will attempt to automatically renew your domain name
for a one-year additional term and charge the most recent credit card on
file for the renewal fee. A confirmation e-mail will be sent to you
detailing the successful renewal transaction. 

Please select your domain name security level at this time: 

To turn High Security "on", click
<http://www.namescout.com/sy.asp?k=ymjp6r2pt2r3g5s7> here. 

To turn High Security "off", click
<http://www.namescout.com/sn.asp?k=ymjp6r2pt2r3g5s7> here. 

After your initial security level selection, you can change the security
level on a domain-by-domain basis at any time from your Master Account. For
your protection, if you do not select your security level before August 31,
2002, High Security will default to "on" for all of your domain names. 

Yours Truly, 

Namescout.com Customer Service
service&#167;namescout.com <mailto:service§namescout.com>  

Please Note: Due to technical limitations of the domain name system even
with the High Security feature turned "on", we cannot provide a 100%
guarantee that your domain names will not be transferred maliciously.
However, with High Security enabled you will have the highest level of
security that we offer today. 

	
 	 

P.S. Please click here
<http://www.namescout.com/master/email_contact_prefs.asp?user=waleed.salhien
&#167;bigpond.com>  to unsubscribe or to change your contact preferences.