> Non electronic spam! Ian what is your understanding of spam!

Rod

Sorry I was too obscure.  I hope the following better explains the point I was
trying to make.

My reference to "legislation to ... deal with non-electronic spam relating to
domain names" was intended to cover unwanted domain name material delivered to
letter-boxes, e.g. letters that look like invoices.   I was suggesting that the
Federal Government's spam (electronic junk mail) legislation might address this
and other domain name problems.  (I appreciate that are other ways of handling
such problems, including using State/Territory fair trading laws and/or the
Trade Practices Act.)

> ... Have you ever had to pick up a $550 data bill ...   and ... This is the
true meaning of spam stealing data ...

The spam you have described may not be covered by the "definition" in the NOIE
Report <www.noie.gov.au/publications/NOIE/spam/final_report/what.htm>.  This
definition is likely to form the basis of drafting instructions for the Federal
Government's spam legislation.

If this "definition" of spam does not cover your situation - my reading is that
it may not - I suggest you consider writing to NOIE or the Minister expressing
concern.

If you agree, I would like to consider using your example of the costs faced by
a small business (i.e. the $550 data bill) and proposing that the Federal
Government's spam legislation provide for compensation to small businesses in
prescribed circumstances.

As a matter of principle, SETEL <www.setel.com.au> has long held the view that
where a small business suffers financial detriment as a result of someone else's
"failure" to comply with legislation, the business should be entitled to full
compensation.  Financial detriment includes the incurring costs that are greater
than would otherwise have been incurred by the small business and the foregoing
of revenue that would otherwise have been received by the small business.

I'd be happy to discuss this spam issue further (off-list I suggest).

Regards

Ian



--
Ian Johnston, Policy Consultant
Small Enterprise Telecommunications Centre (SETEL)

SETEL is a national small business consumer association
advancing the interest of Australian small business
as telecommunications and e-commerce consumers


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discount Domain Name Services [mailto:rod&#167;ddns.com.au]
> Sent: 25 July 2003 1:44 PM
> To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> Subject: RE: [DNS] DNS and Spam
>
>
> Non electronic spam! Ian what is your understanding of spam!
> Have you or your company ever been spammed due to an open proxy??(Do you
> know what that is?)  Have you ever had to pick up a $550 data bill due to
> someone finding a hole in your system due to some outage or whatever(Do you
> know what that is). This is the true meaning of spam stealing data from web
> hosting companies or ISP's. Getting a few emails that are unsolicited use
> something like spam assassin to filter out that, but stealing data (Spamming
> data) is a crime that is no different to shop lifting. To call sending out
> advertising via the mail spam is ridiculous that is like calling the
> woolworths brochure placed in your letterbox non electronic spam. I
> wholeheartly agree with the COC and how it has made the industry more
> accountable but you cannot stop shonky operators, witness the bank scams of
> only a couple of weeks ago. Education not legislation.
> 1.1 cents worth
> Rod Keys
>

... snip ...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Johnston [mailto:ian.johnston&#167;infobrokers.com.au]
> Sent: Friday, 25 July 2003 9:43 AM
> To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> Cc: jon&#167;jonlawrence.com
> Subject: RE: [DNS] DNS and Spam
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kim Davies [mailto:kim&#167;cynosure.com.au]
> > Sent: 25 July 2003 3:11 AM
> > To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> > Subject: [DNS] DNS and Spam
> > Sorry to take things off on a tangent a little..
>
> Kim, your not heading off on a tangent as I see it - you're spot on.
>
> I was about the post the following, in response to Jon Lawrence and
> Skeeve
> Stevens (see their emails below), when I saw your email.
>
> --
>
> The following comments and opinions are put forward with a view to
> advancing debate - I'm not wedded to them.
>
> If auDA's and the ACCC's regulatory frameworks were effective,
> inappropriate market behaviour should, by and large, cease.
>
> Indications are that these frameworks are, in part, ineffective - too
> cumbersome, slow, costly ...  That is, they are not achieving desired
> outcomes, according to some community standards.  That's what
> I hear many in the industry saying, and that's what I observe.
>
> Ultimately consumers of domain name services meet the cost of
> market and (any) regulatory failure.  Ineffective deterrent and
> enforcement mechanisms impose costs on auDA, ACCC, bona fide
> industry players and consumers. Consumers and taxpayers fund
> these mechanisms.
>
> With continuing market and regulatory failure - including failure
> due to the limitations of the regulatory framework(s) - the case
> for further government intervention seems compelling, unless the
> domain name industry /co-regulators can demonstrate that they
> can effectively deal with inappropriate market behaviour.
>
> I'm tending to the view that national legislation is probably required.
> For example, consideration might be given to addressing issues in
> the context of the (electronic) spam legislation announced yesterday
> by the Minister for Communications, Information Technolgy and the
> Arts <http://www.dcita.gov.au/Article/0,,0_1-2_15-4_115938,00.html>.
>
> A case could be made for the legislation to also deal with non-electronic
> spam relating to domain names.  Indeed, the case can be made for the
> legislation to address the domain name industry's and consumers'
> concerns.
>
> I'm away from email till much later today.
>
> Ian
>
>
> --
> Ian Johnston, Policy Consultant
> Small Enterprise Telecommunications Centre (SETEL)
> www.setel.com.au   mailto:ian.johnston&#167;setel.com.au
> 02 6251 7848 (B)   02 6251 7835 (F)   0413 990 112 (M)
>
> SETEL is a national small business consumer association
> advancing the interest of Australian small business
> as telecommunications and e-commerce consumers

... snip ...