Hi Guys ... I agree with what you say Larry and your assumption is spot on ... As I said in an earlier post .. mistakes happen, I accept that (I've made a few myself) which is why I did not name your company. One of my customers wanted to move his domain to another reseller or registrar, but instead of asking me (I would have instructed him to set-up an account with Netregistry and pushed the name to his account) He contacted Netregistry directly, obviously some confusion somewhere and he ended up with my account password. He pushed his name to a new account but also changed the email address on my account to his own. I don't believe this was a malicious act. He did not forward the renewals, I was unaware the domain expired. If AUDA policy states I should get renewals and I didn't, then I should still have rights to the name. AUDA should enforce it's policy, and return the name. That would be the most straightforward and simple outcome ... I did ask support at Netregistry to contact the new owner, and ask very nicely if they would transfer the name back (I thought coming from a registrar it might carry more weight) .. Unfortunately they didn't want to (that annoyed me a tad) I don't believe that I will find a domain for my web design business with the same impact as designing.com.au , I also believe that the name would have made my business 'stand out' from the crowd. I don't think I should just sit back and accept the situation. Cheers Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Bloch To: '.au DNS Discussion List' Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [DNS] Bad experience with auDA RE Domain Central, Bottle Domains,Explorer Domains and their hol Well, you're totally off the mark, there, because the issue isn't the performance of the registrar, it's the performance of the Regulator. Moreover, my personal competence or otherwise in running my business is not the issue. It's my business and I'll run it in the interests of its stakeholders - staff, shareholders, customers etc to the best of my ability and in the way I see fit. If I get it wrong I get hammered in the market (clearly not happening). auDA on the other hand is a quasi public body. It undertakes it's role supposedly in the public interest and it is a monopoly - if they screw up - where do we go? Registrars deal with hundreds of thousands of transactions a year. Undoubtedly a few go wrong - I'll cop that. But when we do screw up, our customers can go somewhere else for resolution (auDA for eg.). Where do they go when auDA get it wrong? Oh, by the way, I am personally lazy, sloppy and inconsistent. Luckily I am part of a great team who complement each others weaknesses and deliver a fantastic result as a team. I also know I'm lazy, sloppy and inconsistent, so I can appreciate when I need to take advice or listen to others. Understanding what you are bad at is as important at understanding what you're good at (you listening, auDA?) As to the details of Tony's name .. I've been in this game long enough to see the signs of what could really be going on - an individual claiming to be the authority for a name and effectively convincing a registrar to provide access often on the basis of a dispute between parties known to each other. Tony will no doubt tell me my crystal ball needs cleaning, but it's highly unlikely that Netregistry would have simply given out details to an unrelated party. And yes, I am guessing - more evidence of my sloppy laziness! Regards, Larry From: dns-bounces+larry.bloch=netregistry.com.au§dotau.org [mailto:dns-bounces+larry.bloch=netregistry.com.au§dotau.org] On Behalf Of Cary Cashman Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2008 9:08 To: .au DNS Discussion List Subject: Re: [DNS] Bad experience with auDA RE Domain Central, Bottle Domains, Explorer Domains and their hol Hello Larry, > Lazy, sloppy, inconsistent all spring to mind. Actually, I think if you were competent enough at running your business you'd check and discover that NetRegistry is the registrar that lost Tony Owen his name in the first place and seems to be refusing to compensate him for their negligence. Apparently you 'accidently' gave account details to a 'third party' who then stole his name. That would fit with your reputation. So, you're the lazy sloppy and inconsistent one. Sort your own act out before you start bleating on about others. CC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: larry.bloch§netregistry.com.au To: dns§dotau.org Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:35:12 +1000 Subject: Re: [DNS] Bad experience with auDA RE Domain Central, Bottle Domains, Explorer Domains and their holding company Australian Style Pty Ltd Hi, Well, that's a really odd story, Tony, because on a matter we have had to deal with on behalf of a client auDA took the exact opposite view - they deleted a name registered in to a new owner after an error at the registry and gave it back to a previous owner (apparently the previous owner did renew, but due to the registry issue, the name was not renewed and lapsed). The new owner had spend considerably on the site and the old owner didn't even know his name was no longer registered to him. The reality: auDA makes up the rules on the fly. And the rules they make up are based on what's easiest for them, not what is sensible or appropriate. In your case a mistake by a registrar results in a new owner keeping the name. In our case a mistake by the registry results in the new customer losing their name. Lazy, sloppy, inconsistent all spring to mind. They are a very unfunny, self perpetuating, overpaid joke. Regards, Larry From: dns-bounces+larry.bloch=netregistry.com.au§dotau.org [mailto:dns-bounces+larry.bloch=netregistry.com.au§dotau.org] On Behalf Of Tony Owen Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 3:54 To: .au DNS Discussion List Subject: Re: [DNS] Bad experience with auDA RE Domain Central, Bottle Domains, Explorer Domains and their holding company Australian Style Pty Ltd Hi, I've been asked to explain my previous post .. so here goes: I had a website designing.com.au, I used the website for my Tafe students as a resource site for their classes. The registrar 'accidently' gave my account details including my password to a third party who changed the email address on the account. designing.com.au came up for renewal, the emails went to the 3rd party ... I didnt realise it had expired until it was too late (it had been picked up on the drop) AUDA have suggested I accept an offer by the registrar of a the cost of 12 months registration (ie the free reg of a new name) and seem to accept the situation. I have been looking for a replacement name, but they seem to be snapped up before I get the 'expired domain list' from my new registrar .... So I have a double beef .. losing a name that I valued highly (we now are a fulltime web design business) and the fact that it is virtually impossible to grab an expored domain because they are snatched up before my reigstrars drop list is published. AUDA should investigate any instances of domains being registered before the drop lists are published, and see if the same company is getting them all, not too mention taking stronger action against registrars who 'lose' domains for their customers. Cheers Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Owen To: .au DNS Discussion List Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [DNS] Bad experience with auDA RE Domain Central, Bottle Domains,Explorer Domains and their holding company Australian Style Pty Ltd Good luck with your endeavours, I have contacted AUDA with concerns about dropped domains being snapped up, they simply told me unless I had concrete evidence (which of course would be nigh on impossible to get) they would not even look at the situation, and then hung the phone up on me. Cheers Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Moore To: dns§dotau.org Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 2:23 PM Subject: [DNS] Bad experience with auDA RE Domain Central, Bottle Domains,Explorer Domains and their holding company Australian Style Pty Ltd Hi, In correspondence with auDA, it was revealed to us that they know that the domain name registrars they accreditted, Domain Central, Bottle Domains and Explorer Domains, are reregistering the domains of their customers to themselves, by the thousands, as auDA said to us they had received DOZENS of complaints around the subject from other businesses who like us lost their domains and websites to and through these outfits. Let me repeat myself: I informed auDA of an abusive situation (explained below) and they advised us that they know of, and have known of the issue for quite some time; that several of their accreditted registrars are reregistering for themselves their customers dot com dot au (.com.au) domains whenever the customer forgets/neglects to renew them. The registrars are refusing to give the domains back to their rightful owners stating that they themselves as "Australian businesses" are equally as entitled to register domains as any other business conducting ecommerce in Australia. auDA has done nothing, and is doing nothing about this improper conduct. These Australian registrars are misusing their priveldged position and conducting insider trading to scoop up thousands upon thousands of peoples dot com dot au (.com.au) domains that were not renewed in time. THE BACKGROUND TO OUR ISSUE We accidentally forgot to renew, within a ludicrous "90 day renewal" period, some of our highly descriptive dot com dot au domains that we had registered some 6 years earlier to point at our main website. These weren't just random domains. They were common dictionary words that received highly qualified leads that generated a significant amount of sales on our main website. These leads came through the domains because the domains describe desirable items that people type directly into their web browsers followed by the dot com dot au suffix, like " email.com.au". Since people directly "type-in" these domains it makes them valuable. This "type-in" phenomenon is called "direct navigation" and is the main reason we beleive our domains were targeted by the Australian domain registrar holding company "Australian Style Pty Ltd". Australian Style Pty Ltd reregistered our domains within minutes of their release to the public, but not to us! They reregistered our Australian domains to themselves and refuse to give them back! When I realised our oversight in neglecting to renew our domains a "90 day renewal deadline" had passed by a couple of hours only so that our domains were already in a "ServerHold, ServerRenew and ServerUpdate Prohibited" status. Thus our domains were still registered to us but could not be renewed due to the status they were in. We were informed that they were due to randomly become available to the public on a "first come, first serve" basis. We were told "there is nothing we can do except you can try to reregister them once the registry has released them." Of course the night that followed was near sleepless pondering what chance we had to reregister our prized domains before another could. I came to the conclusion our chance was 100 per cent because how on earth could anyone except our domain registrar, "Aus Registry" (the maintainers of the Whois database) and auDA (the ".au" domain suffix regulator) know that our domains were expiring!!? I was confident in the conclusion that we would be able to reregister our domains back because some Australian domain investors/developers (a.k.a. domainers) explained on a domain forum that they would buy dot com dot au domains but cannot because of the restrictive policies and that none of the expiring domain name services (SnapNames.com, NameJet.com, Pool.com) provide information on the dot com dot au domains that will become available as the expiry information on all dot com dot au domains is PUBLICLY UNAVAILABLE and AusRegistry has an "IP (Internet Protocol) address lookup restriction" in place on the Whois database that restricts people from looking it up more than 20 times per day! So no one, except an insider, could be privy to the fact our domains were expring. In other words it is IMPOSSIBLE for the public to learn the expiry date of dot com dot au domains. LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS NOW I was extremely disapointed in auDA's innaction and reaction to our loss. I demanded to know what actions they had undertaken since they received the first similar complaint and what actions they planned to take regarding the conduct relating to the documented abuse and misuse of customer records and Whois database information theft by some of the registrars they accredditted to stranglehold peoples domains. We tookup this issue with auDA as they are the self governing industry body who oversees dot com dot au domains so it is their duty to do the right thing by the public. They did not, and are not fullfilling their role! Well, to our discust, our questions and issues have still not been resolved. In fact, the issue has been swept under the carpet, and to this day (months later) auDA is continuing to allow the above mentioned registrars and their related enterprises to WAREHOUSE thousands upon thousands of dot com dot au domains. Thus I am now posting this open letter in this public forum to demand to know why auDA is continuing to allow "Australian Style Pty Ltd" (the holding company of *three* auDA accredited registrars Domain Central, Bottle Domains and Explorer Domains) to reregister for themselves the domain names of their former customers and to hold them hostage while MONETIZING them to display paid links by Google? There is no doubt in my mind these extortionist registrars will soon turn around and sell these thousands upon thousands of warehoused domains back to the market when auDA's new reselling policy is formulated this coming June 2008! It is sickening that auDA is allowing their registrar partners to rape the Australian domain suffix. Something should be done to stop this abusive, racketerring-like conduct and misuse of a priveldged position of trust to literally 'steal' Australian domains from their former and rightfull owners. I hope that those of you who agree with us will follow through in demanding that auDA respond to and satisfactorily address this important issue. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- List policy, unsubscribing and archives => http://dotau.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. 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