[note: personal opinion follows, not wearing any hat but my own]

>
>For the record, Kate, could you please post to this
>list server tomorrow:
>
[...]
>I do expect to see those ISOC-AU proposals on this list
>server tomorrow, Kate.
>

Get a life, Mark. Descending to this sort of bullying tactic (you show me
yours before I'll show you mine) indicates just how badly broken the
process of 'communication' between ADNA and other interested parties has
become. ADNA is operating in a vacuum of its own making.

ADNA is the last organisation I can think of that should be demanding
results 'tomorrow'. I have lost count of the missed deadlines to open up
competition in the com.au namespace, and of the number of times ADNA has
ignored 'community input' in the formulation of its documents, where that
community input falls foul of the internal agenda of one of the people
driving ADNA.

You're trying to have a ADNA hold debate about the fine details, and
actively trying to use the existing ADNA proposed documents as a debating
weapon, while ignoring the high level policy issues and vested interests
almost completely.  

What's it going to take to make this obvious? The desertion of every single
existing DNA and intending DNA from active ADNA participation, with the
exception of Melbourne IT? Sure seems to be heading that way. How many are
actually left inside the walls?

I've put plenty of my own time and money into trying to be involved in ADNA
via various vectors (including ISOC-AU and a paid membership in ADNA via my
presidency of SAIA and a LOT of early contribution to debate on the
processes) on mailing lists and in ADNA pre-and-post formative meetings).
Unlike your views on ISOC-AU, my views on ADNA are formed out of having
tried, very hard, to _participate_, before having to give up on it out of
sheer frustration.

It took me a while to realise I was throwing my pearls to pigs, and your
spiteful reaction to Kate just makes me more certain of that. 

I watched one too many not-so-veiled ultimatums from people in ADNA
meetings I attended, with vested interests very firmly nailed to their
sleeves, and gave up on believing the process could be impartial with its
current makeup.

I will also make a point of expressing my concern that ADNA tends to assert
community support for draft documents after failing to provide adequate
windows for any sort of community input to them, or (when receiving input)
fails to actually respond to or incorporate the input into the documents.
After a while, one stops bothering to contribute when the contributions are
ignored.

The notion of moving sideways into trademark based domain spaces just
illustrates how silly this has already become. For heavens' sake, you
haven't got the existing domains working right yet, this is not the time to
add new ones! Especially ones with really serious legal contention related
to them!

Mark, you're clearly one of the hard working and active particpants in the
ADNA process, and this is not, (I say again, NOT) a personal attack on you.
I appreciate you have put a lot of work into many of these documents.
You're visibly a voice of reason in a lot of these discussions. 

But: you're surrounded by far too much vested interest.

Perhaps NOIE can provide some non-partisan resources to help,
but only if some of the existing internal partisan ones are prepared to
step away long enough to make a difference.

To get real community support, you have to work with that community, not
throw stones at them, and you have to try, really hard, to appear to be
non-partisan in your approaches to commercially sensitive issues. Neither
is the case at this time with respect to ADNA. 

The organisation is broken, broken, broken, and throwing rocks at ISOC-AU
isn't going to fix it, Mark. ISOC-AU isn't the problem.

Regards,
     Yet another disillusioned former ADNA participant who gave up on it.


p.s. I feel better now.

---
Simon Hackett, Technical Director, Internode Systems Pty Ltd
31 York St [PO Box 284, Rundle Mall], Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia
Email: simon§internode.com.au  Web: http://www.on.net
Phone: +61-8-8223-2999          Fax: +61-8-8223-1777